https://www.reddit.com/r/flying/comments/a1wehj/so_who_has_one_of_these/ The dude that delivered it to the lake about busted the landing. Even the big airline pilots (American, Delta, etc.) ATC should have called the Airforce on him. Having been a pilot for over 50 years let me assure you this pilot will receive more than a you shouldnt do that anymore. The tower controller likely For everyone making your amazing judgment calls on the Henderson controller: I was the 16yo kid working the desk when his #2 instructor sent a private student off on his long cross country and controlled airspace solo flight he went to lunch. She should have vectored him out after he refused. To all the negative comments we did not hear previous communication. This leads the pilot to tell ATC to clear him. Thank you.Respectfully,Geneva LaingManagement and Program Analyst, Management & Administrative Support Team, AJV-W640, Northwest Mountain Regional OfficeATO Western Service CenterResource Management Group2200 S. 216th St., 3rd Floor, 3N-458Des Moines, WA 98198Office: 206-231-3337Geneva.Laing@faa.gov, [Your new Mission Support Services Logo! This is about aviation. Oh my gosh! Maybe, just maybe this controller was playing her Bravo authority a little too far? ], Subject: RE: FOIA 2020-007191WP DUE: 8/6/2020. About 45 minutes after the student left my phone rings Caller - this is xx. Heres the full ATC audio, should you want to listen to it (when you listen to it youll appreciate just how angry this guys tone is): Ive never heard ATC audio where a pilot is so disobedient to instructions. Nobody gives a f*. Even if you dont have a good understanding of ATC terminology, the situation should be easy enough to make sense of. Your request is assigned to the office listed below: Federal Aviation Administration Contact: Amelia McGillWestern-Pacific Region (424) 405-7221Flight Standards Division, AWP-200777 S. Aviation Blvd.El Segundo, CA 90245. All I do is shake my head and smile. Most helpful comments ( as chosen by the OMAAT community ). Visit a tracon JUST ONCE. Without that you cannot enter class B airspace. If N1NR had requested clearance, ATC would have responded with clearance or denial and N1NR would have to confirm what was said. The Flight . Talk to your psychotherapist. Pilot: Ive asked for clearance multiple times.ATC: N1NR, I told you to remain outside the Bravo.ATC: N1NR, possible pilot deviation, advise to contact Las Vegas approach. I live under the approach and departure path to MIA, so I constantly have ATC audio playing in the background. This brasher warning is intended to provide the involved flight crew with the opportunity to make note of the incident that has taken place and gather their thoughts before it is discussed. Can A Private Pilot Fly As A Sport Pilot. It was quite a [emailprotected]## show. This pilot penatrated that airspace at what appears to have been approximately 4800. Shout out to Capt. Dad was a FBO, Commercial, Instructor, Multi, Aerobatic, crop duster and Instrument. The pilots is always in command, not the controller. I've been given instructions that I don't agree with. Anyone flying under VFR (Visual Flight Rules) needs to hear the words You are cleared to enter the Bravo airspace before entering the Bravo airspace. Student - he did get his private after 3 more months of practice. I think by "Airforce" [sic] you're thinking of all those movies you've seen. It appears that this pilot is a child of the "Magenta Line", it looks like he flies with automation on a lot. We will leave some of the most common violations below for you to read about. I look forward to receiving your response to this request within 20 business days, as the statute requires. The compilation is based on data from the agency's Enforcement Information System (EIS). > ATC should have called the Airforce on him. The F-15 and F-16 have to go over twice that. Neil Wilsonthe CFIIsays "maybe the controller was playing her class BRAVO authority a little too far".. You should not be a CFII with that kind of attitude. And, when pilot deviation notification procedures were first added to the ATC manual in 1995, the procedure and phraseology were substantially similar to the pertinent provisions of Notice Outside of banner ads published through the Boarding Area network, this compensation does not impact how and where products appear on this site. This leads me to believe that a medical problem or hypoxia or something like that might (emphasis, _might__) have been a factor. (at least formally) But I'd recommend against posting it, even if that person turns out to be the idiot in question. This should help to give you a better understanding of pilot deviation and the risks that are associated with it. I've been given instructions that I don't agree with. "N731NR (whining): "I'm inside"LAS: "You were not given a clearance through the Bravo. Maybe follow-up later with a phone call to make sure they knew it was entirely unintentional, you immediately corrected the error, and that safety is paramount. Thank you for your very thoughtful insight. This pilot should have been arrested and given a breathalyzer upon landing. Or the one over "Isnt the airspace over international airports congested (and dangerous) enough without these general aviation Cesena clowns and the Harrison Fords of the world putting the rest of us at risk? Unfortunately we are unable to move forward with your request until we have a name. Second, yes, people make mistakes, and when someone tells you "Hey you made a mistake here's Karen: Keep up the anti-mask bs. In the next couple of weeks this is what he can expect: 1 Phone call with FAA to get pilots side of the story. The begged question is false. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. This guy should be banned from flying period! Time that controller needed for other pilots who HAD to be in the Class B. I can't believe anyone would defend his behavior Is it that hard to skirt around or over it? Should you wish to inquire as to the status of your request, please contact the assigned FOIA Coordinator. I'm not so sure she would know how to "buy a clue"!? Thank you for your attached FOIA request. That's a terrible thing to say, that a pilot should lose his license. Karen Mosley apparetly is clueless about aviation. I live in Las Vegas. Stay connected with the latest travel, aviation, and credit card news. The owner of that plane holds a Commercial Pilot Certificate. I received a disc from the FAA containing the Air Traffic Organization response and I loaded everything from that disc into this Google Drive folder. She refuses and he petulantly retorts back. It should have gone 1NR, please exit the Bravo. 2020-007191WS Anonymous (Laing) Invoice.pdf, 2020-007191WS Anonymous (Laing) PDPNR.pdf, Subject: RE: Freedom of Information Act Request #2020-007191. The pilot never requested clearance into the class BRAVO airspace. he just kept right on going disregarding the safety of hundreds of people on the SWA planes. I have to say the VASAviation guts who make these videos to an awesome job, its really cool how they combine the audio with the radar detail. Avoiding Pilot Deviations.pdf (1016.81 KB) Pilot deviations can occur in several different ways. Attached is the letter in response to your above mentioned FOIA request. The information contained in this record should be the most current Airworthiness information available in the historical aircraft record. As well as this, you might want to consider making a call to an aviation attorney before you call the number that you have been provided with. We dont delight in getting them in trouble. I can almost guarantee you that this clown had the certified letter from the local FSDO awaiting in his mailbox, still smoking by the time he arrived home. I fly in the busy Chicago airspace as a private pilot and the vast majority of Private pilots are as professional as the air transport pilots, and are often much less complacent in and around the class B and class C airspace. Is there any way you can vector me through? The belligerent behavior of the pilot with the controller and the sound of his voice makes me wonder if this might have been suffering from mild hypoxia. He just flat out refused. So long "Karen". . Wrong. A pilot will be given priority in an emergency situation, and they will need to submit a report of this emergency within 48 hours to the manager of the ATC facility if this is requested of them. If you read what I wrote with an open mind and still think I have a stick up my ass, go read up on Kobe Bryant the basketball legend no longer with us because someone buckaroo'd it. Im an air traffic controller in a class B airspace (one of the 8 US airports busier than LAS) and I have to admit that Im occasionally underwhelmed by the services that my coworkers are willing to provide; how unenthusiastic they can be about working a little harder to allow a VFR aircraft to enter the airspace. Certainly, the other person on frequency broke the rules by transmitting directly to the pilot, but that was defensible and measured: the pilot had severely degraded situational awareness that was imperiling the safe operation of his aircraft. Once I had to reroute a general aviation pilot around weather to miss other traffic and he would not do it, Finally I was told to Once I had to reroute a general aviation pilot around weather to miss other traffic and he would not do it, Finally I was told to ask him "are you refusing an air traffic control clearance?" That being said, its not just a comfort level thing or willingness issue - its often a safety Im an air traffic controller in a class B airspace (one of the 8 US airports busier than LAS) and I have to admit that Im occasionally underwhelmed by the services that my coworkers are willing to provide; how unenthusiastic they can be about working a little harder to allow a VFR aircraft to enter the airspace. This notice provides new procedures for investigating pilot deviations (PD), and completing FAA Form 8020-18, Investigation of Pilot Deviation Report by certificate-holding district offices (CHDO), Flight Standards District Offices (FSDO), and certificate management offices (CMO) with oversight of air carrier operators certificated under The F-15 and F-16 have to go over twice that. About 45 minutes after the student left my phone rings I would have made up some BS like instruments or alternator. P.S. But if it was just a misjudgment, and we all make those from time to time, the appropriate response would be to simply apologize to the Controller, then get out. I'm the ATC supervisor in FSD is NxxxxR still owned by (bus name). If youre having medical issues or youre feeling unwell youre not supposed to be in command of an aircaft. They don't take airspace incursions lightly, ESPECIALLY in the #8 most busy airport in the US. Almost would have met you that day but water saved me. She didn't offer a heading or instruction to resolve the issue. and our Commercial Pilot Please inform me prior to conducting any service demanding fees.I would prefer the request filled electronically, by e-mail attachment if available or CD-ROM if not. The recording indicates a few things going on: sounded like a rough flight, pilot's kid threw up, perhaps he had his hands full. In aviation, Bravo airspace or Class B space is a zone around some of the busiest airports that no plane or helicopter is allowed to enter without permission. She kept phoning her father, a MD in LA and complaining about her mistreatment and threatening everybody with lawsuits. The second LAS TRACON told him to exit Bravo he should have done the max-bank 180 his aircraft and his passenger(s) and he is comfortable with and exited Bravo. Sometimes its not possible to accommodate requests, either because of airport or supervisory/FAA edicts or because of systemic procedures or because of current workload. I remember about 20 years ago when my grandfather and I flew up to Vegas to SEMA and we flew outside class bravo and he explicitly explained that we dont get near that ring until ATC says clear to enter. Amelia McGillManagement & Program Analyst (FOIA Coordinator)FAA-Office of Foundational BusinessCorrespondence Services Branch, AFB-130424-405-7221. First, when aviation is involved we ALL give a f. People's lives are at risk. The aircraft, N731NR, is registered to "Wife Approved LLC." All the information we have at this point shows that he blamed ATC for . Instructions on distribution of The Original Donna: Class Bravo & Charlie airspace requires certain verbal permission to fly in/out/ and through it, but you have basic lack of understanding when it comes to the airspace system I fear. This may come as a shock to you, but us general aviation Cesena (sic) clowns have as much right to use the airspace as any commercial operation. The controller continues to direct other traffic including warning other planes in the area that N1NR is there and approximately where it is so that they do not collide with it as it has still not left Bravo. Only then did he comply with instructions. This guy has absolutely no business being in command of an automobile, much less an aircraft in class B airspace. Sometimes ATC attitude causes the problems. They also rechecked the examiner who tested him on his private he got suspended for a short time and had to recheck as a examiner. Anything that may seem like a clearance but does not resemble those exact words is not a clearance. He probably should have his certificate revoked. However he failed to descend below the inner ring, that ring starts at 4500 ft MSL and goes up to 10000 ft MSL. Not only is it against our good nature, but its more work to deviate a pilot (tell on them in lay terms) than to overlook trivial pilot errors after calling them out, as long as it doesnt pose an imminent danger. This incident is recorded as all radio communications between planes and ATC are definitely recorded as a matter of public record:https://onemileatatime.com/atc-audio-negligent-pilot/.

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